Curse

SpeedyKQ · May 08, 2006, 01:36 PM // 13:36

The locked gates don't bother me personally. I always play through the main storyline whenever I make a character. Did it with 4 Prophecies characters. Its just my playstyle.

But I have no problem with unlocking the gates per account. If people really want to skip the game on their second or third character, let 'em. Its their fifty bucks.

Draxx · May 08, 2006, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Ignis -... WHAT??????? your new name will be The online game Nazi, you should do what you want with it not get everything NERFED just cuz YOU! dont like it, thats the dumbest thing i have EVER heard. Fair enough if u liked it before, but things change and they are meant to change based on how the users USE it. NOT on how the creaters nerf it all to hell.

Theus - if you had read what i said, it would not effect the end of game greens if you removed the gates after 1 character had finished the game IF thy still had to complete the missions. it would be easyer for all alt's and would make you enjoy it more. i get that there stopping you from skipping missions. but thats not in MY oppinions (and fair enough if you disagree) the best move for ALL chars within a account.

there are other ways around it that will accomidate all players rather than idiots who hate running. Running is a part of Tyria and not a part of cantha. even THAT i can make my peace with but people saying it ruins the game is just stupid. when the skills are there to do it with.

Arknow · May 08, 2006, 03:17 PM // 15:17

i love people who say haveing to do all this stuff is a waste of time,

people, its a game, waste of time to start with if you ask normal people

lots of valid points here, i'm on the fence about opning it all up, my htoghts are if you force people to play/fight the whole way it forces you to become better with your skills ( in theory) not just some cheesedick'd noob who death charges into mob's and bitches about no heals~

account unlockable gates while still haveing to mission to get to end game seems a fair compramise, even with them all open running is hard as shit cause the narrow allys, traps out the ass, and the flood of mobs when you get aggro will drop a person faster than cheap hookers

my 2 cp

AxeMe · May 08, 2006, 03:23 PM // 15:23

I've played through the game and unlocked the various areas through missions and quests.

The thing that bothers me - comparing this to Prophecies - is that I'm not having as much fun. I still enjoy the game but I don't like the fact that I have to do everything in linear fashion - a to b, b to c, c to d - it was fun to bumble around and find new areas in Prophecies and now I feel like my character is a train on a track with only one way to go.

I understand the reasons all this was done. I'm not so bothered by it that I'll stop playing. I enjoyed starting a new character and moving him along through the game. And it's been great to get new skills for my old Prophecy characters. So this isn't a deal breaker for me. But I'll have to admit that it would be more fun to me if I could explore more and let the game move in unpredictable ways.

Draxx · May 08, 2006, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Exactly, I dont mean to sound like doing the game is a waste of time if you were refering to me. but i am a firm beilever that within online games you should be able to find your own way around if you wish, which is why i think the gates being open when you have already finished the game to be a valid good idea.

it may even be harder to run or fight your own way through the city or where ever you want to go, but the option should be there for you to choose

then you can run for yourself and not have any gain on it which doesnt hurt anything if you love it.

as much as i enjoyed running as part of the game even though i am NO pro runner. i found it to be a fantastic way for the people that WERE good at it to make money.

i find it frustrating that people just hate them cuz there making money that way and not following the linear story line over and over again. by a single player rpg if you want a linear story line and no1 to break the rules.

MSecorsky · May 08, 2006, 03:37 PM // 15:37

The locked gates are fine. If you want to get a character to the end, you must get the urn and the spear, then you must fight Shiros constructs, and then and only then can you get into Cavalon or that other place. Logical flow.

Nice thing... I've yet to see towns flooded with power-levelled bots all streaming out the same door over and over.

Ah, and as for leaving people behind at the doors... please consider making sure everyone has the quest you're on before going. It's really that simple.

Draxx · May 08, 2006, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Exactly why you have to have a char that has finished the game before you have the opened gates, AND still having to do the missions in order, you SHOULD be able to explore it makes it so much more interesting. for players who want to level up 6 chars like i do.

i dont think the gates always being there is helpful for replay value because i dont want to group if i dont have to in some instences. not all the time but people should be able to play the game that way,

After having a game like Prophecies where you can do that, why remove part of the game that kept people loyal and playing it for months and months after they have finished the game?

MSecorsky · May 08, 2006, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draxx

Exactly why you have to have a char that has finished the game before you have the opened gates, AND still having to do the missions in order, you SHOULD be able to explore it makes it so much more interesting. for players who want to level up 6 chars like i do.

Can someone translate this for me? Character finish the game before the gate are opened? Huh?

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i dont think the gates always being there is helpful for replay value because i dont want to group if i dont have to in some instences. not all the time but people should be able to play the game that way,

Again... huh? You need to group whether you like it or not... you're not soloing this thing. Take henchies if you wish. Unless you're talking about the missions? You can try and hench it with the missions if you wish.

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After having a game like Prophecies where you can do that, why remove part of the game that kept people loyal and playing it for months and months after they have finished the game?

Being able to run had nothing to do with me playing it over and over personally. People got spoiled by runners, sadly... if there were gates in Prophecies no one would be whining now, and no, I don't believe many people would have quit a long time ago because they couldn't run due to the fact that they never would have had the running concept in the first place.

Dart · May 08, 2006, 03:58 PM // 15:58

I suck at maps...I know I do...I sometimes run but most often play the whole storyline...that flexibility I really do love about Tyria.

Last night when there was no one to play against in Ft. Aspenwood AGAIN - I resorted to heading over to House Zu Heltzer and picking up a bunch of quests...

Now I know we all had it coming to us - we that have runned through a quest - but the overdone maze really screws me up...I don't mind not being able "to run" but I really do get mad when I cannot figure out how to move on - like in the swamp area in Altrumm Ruins there is half water and half tree vines...very cool place, very confusing path...I tried hitting "c spacebar" to kill everything in site to sorta "lead the way" when I couldn't see that twisting vine that would continue me on the right path but time and again I was dead ended...this led to tons of wasted time, frustration, and swearing because there is no portal to "pause" my quest with to deal with at a later more patient time.

So I look at a looooooooooooong map of red dots and hit f12 cussing up a storm and swearing that if I want faction I'd rather not do those annoying quests and just wait till the weekend when Ft. Aspenwood is busy. I'm not saying that all the quests are that way but I sure as hell am finding quite a few are - and REALLY am not interested to find out which ones are not.

For me the game is about having fun - I think the idea of winning a green at the end is a great well deserved reward and protecting it from abuse is totally understandable- BUT at this point until I hear of an improvement in this closed portal - over mazed issue - you won't see me doing any quests in Cantha. Now with that conclusion I doubt I will buy a second Factions for my second account because why would I want to quest a frustrating map. I'd have just as much fun teaming up in in the Tombs and getting a green. - This is coming from using my warrior that has done all the missions, won a green and has done about 80% of the quests (all Luxon ones done).

If Anet could option a "ping on the path feature" on the map (kinda like the red ping we use for each other on the compass when someone gets lost or behind) when the little green arrow is too confusing then at least I could plod on - like I said, don't mind the work- too confused to get my butt through the frikin maze.

Even during the headstart event I was having my doubts about getting the game with my CE late and getting a feel for the winding streets and fed ex quests and hearing about the elite missions exclusion...I went ahead and bought one off the shelf after seeing Anet scramble to appease their customers with the appreciation gift for CE purchasers - on the appreciation that they fix what they hear customers are unhappy with...

I am sure hoping to see they keep it up

Draxx · May 08, 2006, 04:09 PM // 16:09

MSecorsky hey,

i wouldnt of played guild wars in the first place if there was gates,(simply because it wouldnt be the same game.) and i am sorry about the vagueness of some of my comments but i covered them in a few posts in this thread.

i was saying if you finish the game then for the rest of your characters the gates should be open but you still have to finish the game mission wise in a linear way by doing the missions. it would make you able to explore and not just do the same missions over and over again. and...

you wouldnt have to group with your 2nd or 3rd char if you could explore yes you would when doing the missions but that should be your choice.

and i am not dealing with something that didnt have. running WAS part of guild wars ok that is a plain fact. it was in it, and it did not 'ruin' anything if you dont want a runner dont get 1... yes it let alot of noobs to the end of the game which was frustrating... but still the option should be there if it is possible. there is nothing wrong with running.

i have finished factions and have 4 other lvl 20s and do not wish to do all the city missions to get them all out, i know i have to. but my point is that if it wasnt for the crazy anti runningness i would still be able to explore and get from place to place with hench.

weather YOU would do it or not there should be a option for people who want to play it like this to do so, because guild warsw is a online game and should have more than 1 way of doing everything. it makes sence so please dont argue against me for the sake of it or if YOU wouldnt do it this way.

to have the option in tyria and not have it in cantha just because they dont want it anymore is not responsible because it upsets a large number of players.

i understand that people want to do it there own way and respect that, why cant you respect the fact i want to play the game a different way that has been possible up until now.

and i am putting forward a perfectly reasonable solution to this as well.

(again though i respect that running had nothing to do with you playing the game. because you played it how you wanted to. which is the point im trying to make. you cant play it the way you want to you have a set path and must follow it in factions.)

CKaz · May 08, 2006, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Oddly enough I come at this from a different side, I don't want to be run.

My biggest issue so far has been the fact of Tyria vs Cantha separation.
What happened to 6x100%???

ie
My warrior from Tyria couldn't get to an assassin's 'V Square', nor them mine.
So I journey with guildies to get to their 'V Square local quarter', and everyone goes through the gate from me. I cant get the quest - he mentions students and talk to Togo in Kaineng. Umm we went by Togo on the way here, and I can't get a quest to get in nor get past the gate.

So to help guildies and bring my real meatshield I couldn't. So more Assassins/Rits in local quarter than newly made other classes, and apparently if I gather correctly, no Assassins/Rits in the foreign quarter could ever happen. Ummm WTF? Yeah neat you split these two into two groups (which IMO is a bit goofy and subject to its own problems). I see another potential problem one coming in the same form for Temple as I hit. Yay :b

So Cantha 'students' can't do presear or even early ascalon (a nice error message if you try, thanks, so much for my having a Rit to go through with my wife's new character(s) there). Tyrians can't do a bunch on the island/get these gates unlocked. Now there is mission segratation as well.

Not to beat a dead horse but lose 2 slots, lose a xunlai agent storage, lose missions that are considered 'developmental' AND still some denial and/or segratation past 'presear' evolution missions and quests?

/notimpressed

MSecorsky · May 08, 2006, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draxx

MSecorsky hey,

Hey!

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i wouldnt of played guild wars in the first place if there was gates,(simply because it wouldnt be the same game.)

Of course you would have. You didn't buy and play the game because you heard there were no gates. You bought, played, and found out that there were shortcuts.

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i was saying if you finish the game then for the rest of your characters the gates should be open but you still have to finish the game mission wise in a linear way by doing the missions. it would make you able to explore and not just do the same missions over and over again. and...

... and you would have the same problems you find in Tyria with the Mo/W bots flooding the later towns, for example.

You know... Tyria does have one gate that stands out... THK. Can't get to Ring of Fire without doing it. This is simply an expansion of that concept.

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you wouldnt have to group with your 2nd or 3rd char if you could explore yes you would when doing the missions but that should be your choice.

A lot of the explorable areas are the mission areas, and are only open to exploration after completion of the mission.

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and i am not dealing with something that didnt have. running WAS part of guild wars ok that is a plain fact. it was in it, and it did not 'ruin' anything if you dont want a runner dont get 1... yes it let alot of noobs to the end of the game which was frustrating... but still the option should be there if it is possible. there is nothing wrong with running.

Exactly! Running was a part of GW, and still is in Tyria. Running has been demonstrated to have significant problems previously addressed.

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i have finished factions and have 4 other lvl 20s and do not wish to do all the city missions to get them all out, i know i have to. but my point is that if it wasnt for the crazy anti runningness i would still be able to explore and get from place to place with hench.

Really, you still can for the most part. The only catch is that you can't explore everything at once, you will need to step back and do a mission for another segment of map to open. Again, it's required to open areas to explorations anyhow, which is a great new aspect fo the game. You can't, for example, ever go back and explore all of the THK mission area after the missions over.

Yet no one complained about not being able to explore those regions... because they never considered that they could, perhaps?

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weather[sic] YOU would do it or not there should be a option for people who want to play it like this to do so, because guild warsw is a online game and should have more than 1 way of doing everything. it makes sence so please dont argue against me for the sake of it or if YOU wouldnt do it this way.

Well, no, I disagree. It would require changing the new paradigm too greatly. It's not simply a matter of unlocking the gates, as I mentioned.

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to have the option in tyria and not have it in cantha just because they dont want it anymore is not responsible because it upsets a large number of players.

Again, it's necessary if you want to explore even greater areas of the map, including going back and exploring the mission areas.

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i understand that people want to do it there own way and respect that, why cant you respect the fact i want to play the game a different way that has been possible up until now.

and i am putting forward a perfectly reasonable solution to this as well.

(again though i respect that running had nothing to do with you playing the game. because you played it how you wanted to. which is the point im trying to make. you cant play it the way you want to you have a set path and must follow it in factions.)

However, your solution actually isn't reasonable. It would have a significant impact on how the game works. We have greater exploration of areas now at the cost of running. Not everyone considers this a fair trade off, however enough do (and obviously I am one of those). To rebuild the model behind Factions so the runners can make a living... I don't see it happening.

floplag · May 08, 2006, 04:32 PM // 16:32

i like it, even though it has frustrated me at times because its hard to know what to do to open them

but many, myself included, suggested a long time ago that requiring completion of certain things before entry to certain locations would prevent the contant lvl 3 at ember light camp .. or other such nonsense

MSecorsky · May 08, 2006, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

Oddly enough I come at this from a different side, I don't want to be run.

My biggest issue so far has been the fact of Tyria vs Cantha separation.
What happened to 6x100%???

You misinterpreted what 6x100% means. All six slots have access to both (i.e. 100%) of the games, rather than having 8 slots with access to one game each (i.e. 50%). No one expected (reasonable) for a level 20 from one land to have access to all of the other land. Tyrian 20s have no business in the Monestary, for example.

The percent, however, refers to the number of games you can access, not every single quest or mission in every single game.

felinette · May 08, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

You misinterpreted what 6x100% means. All six slots have access to both (i.e. 100%) of the games, rather than having 8 slots with access to one game each (i.e. 50%). No one expected (reasonable) for a level 20 from one land to have access to all of the other land. Tyrian 20s have no business in the Monestary, for example.

And I'll say it again, many reasonable people, including myself, did expect that when the 6x100% deal was hyped to us as the preferred way to do things, we expected our characters to be able to play ALL missions and quests in both Cantha and Tyria, barring the pre-searing areas in both. I never expected those to be included. And I'll say again that what's even more disappointing to me is that we can't create rits and sins for Prophecies. What's the point of linking accounts so you get merged content when there's a lot of content left out? Obviously we did misinterpret the 6x100% thing because it was vague to begin with. We'll insist next time that Anet spell out exactly what linking accounts will get you.

But based on what Anet said about 6x100%, it was perfectly reasonable to assume that Canthan characters would be able to do all of the storyline missions in Tyria, and vice versa. People take their level 20 Prophecies characters through the early Prophecies storyline missions all the time, to help other players or to pick up a bonus they missed, so what's so unreasonable about expecting to do the same with Canthan characters?

MSecorsky · May 08, 2006, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by felinette

And I'll say it again, many reasonable people, including myself, did expect that when the 6x100% deal was hyped to us as the preferred way to do things, we expected our characters to be able to play ALL missions and quests in both Cantha and Tyria, barring the pre-searing areas in both. I never expected those to be included. And I'll say again that what's even more disappointing to me is that we can't create rits and sins for Prophecies. What's the point of linking accounts so you get merged content when there's a lot of content left out? Obviously we did misinterpret the 6x100% thing because it was vague to begin with. We'll insist next time that Anet spell out exactly what linking accounts will get you.

But based on what Anet said about 6x100%, it was perfectly reasonable to assume that Canthan characters would be able to do all of the storyline missions in Tyria, and vice versa. People take their level 20 Prophecies characters through the early Prophecies storyline missions all the time, to help other players or to pick up a bonus they missed, so what's so unreasonable about expecting to do the same with Canthan characters?

Although your points are valid, I personally never expected to be able to, for example, create a Tyrian assassin, simply because that would require a large amount of recoding of Prophecies to do. Consider you'd need specific quests for the new classes, skills added in and available in skills quests, etc... it didn't make sense to recode an existing game to add these. Consider future chapters as well... if they add new classes to you expect ANet to go back and recode all the prior chapters for the new classes as well?

I'll agree, 6x100% was a poor choice of terms. They should have (and did originally...) said and stuck with 6 slots with access to both worlds vs two games with 4 slots each that can only access their individual worlds. People are latching too strongly onto a slip of the tounge, a poorly turned phrase, and ignoring the fact that they were clear on this prior to 6x100% ever being uttered.

felinette · May 08, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Although your points are valid, I personally never expected to be able to, for example, create a Tyrian assassin, simply because that would require a large amount of recoding of Prophecies to do. Consider you'd need specific quests for the new classes, skills added in and available in skills quests, etc... it didn't make sense to recode an existing game to add these. Consider future chapters as well... if they add new classes to you expect ANet to go back and recode all the prior chapters for the new classes as well?

It wouldn't have taken a lot of recoding, none in fact. All that needed to be changed are the quests that give out skill rewards--that's just a matter of adding to the possible rewards based on profession--and to add a few new trainers to pre-searing. Not a huge job. And yes, I would expect that new professions can be started in any chapter if you link accounts. Otherwise each subsequent profession will have access to less and less content, the way things are going.

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I'll agree, 6x100% was a poor choice of terms. They should have (and did originally...) said and stuck with 6 slots with access to both worlds vs two games with 4 slots each that can only access their individual worlds. People are latching too strongly onto a slip of the tounge, a poorly turned phrase, and ignoring the fact that they were clear on this prior to 6x100% ever being uttered.

Agree that it was vague. I never saw anything except the 6x100% that was uttered here. One thing Anet isn't all that great about is communication.

MSecorsky · May 08, 2006, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by felinette

It wouldn't have taken a lot of recoding, none in fact. All that needed to be changed are the quests that give out skill rewards--that's just a matter of adding to the possible rewards based on profession--and to add a few new trainers to pre-searing. Not a huge job. And yes, I would expect that new professions can be started in any chapter if you link accounts. Otherwise each subsequent profession will have access to less and less content, the way things are going.

Oh my, you're not a programmer are you? Any change requires new code. It has to, programs can only do what they're coded to do, so you have to change the code to change the results. Every change you make to code, especially something as huge as this, requires huge amounts of time and testing. Integration testing alone can be a nightmare as the sheer size grows.

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Agree that it was vague. I never saw anything except the 6x100% that was uttered here. One thing Anet isn't all that great about is communication.

You'd have to look at the chat logs from Gaile trying to explain the linking before she first uttered 6x100%. It was actually clearer before they tried to clear it up.

Omni Spirit · May 08, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

You'd have to look at the chat logs from Gaile trying to explain the linking before she first uttered 6x100%. It was actually clearer before they tried to clear it up.

Apparently Gaile wasn't clear enough, alot of ppl are still confuse.

Big Tony · May 08, 2006, 06:08 PM // 18:08

My god you people love to cry.
Just play the game as it was intended and all the gates will open up just fine. I've had Factions for a week now and the only locked gate i ever hit was at Cho's estate, which i quickly realized I had to do a mission to open.
This is a new game, to be played in a new way. Just because you had the Uber-leet run build for Tyria and made it to ember light camp at lvl 12 doesn't mean the same tactics will work in this game. Theres nothing more annoying than playing an end level mission with someone who obviously has no idea how to use his/her skills.
Just keep playing or give up and move on. Either way, I'm satisfied with the content of Factions and dont need to bash anet to try and get my way.